My Jog 50cc update

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My Jog 50cc update

Postby bazbo » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:46 am

Just thought I'd post a quick update on my jog mods for those sticking to a 50cc and wanting more without the cylinder upgrade.

Current setup is - polini variator, koso race clutch and bell, malossi torque driver, Leo vince sp3 exhaust, airbox snorkel removed, carb upjetted, daytona cdi, polini blue contra spring, ball bearing contra spring slider.

The last 2 mods I have made that have really sorted the performance out were the installation of the polini contra spring, and the malossi torque driver. She is now running very nicely indeed and pretty quick for a 50.

Previously I had the malossi yellow contra spring installed, but have had acceleration issues with this spring - once I installed the polini blue contra these issues dissapeared - despite the springs supposedly being the same. It looks like the polini is a slightly thinner gauge than the malossi though so probably not quite as stiff. The upshot of this is that putting too strong a spring in your rear pulley can have a negative effect on acceleration - I notice that with the malossi there was a lag until the revs where up high enough to overcome the resistance. no such problem with the polini.

Then I installed the malossi torque driver. First one I bought was too big -was for the 34mm shaft and the jog has a 33mm, so that was returned. Unfortunately the 33m is still not perfect, in that it does not come with oil seals, (the 34mm did!), so you have to cut out the original seals from your yamaha sheave, and glue them in - pretty cowboy really. Just inquired with Yamaha as to the cost of new seal - $40 each and you need 2!!!! Daylight robbery. Hopefully my glued seals will last! Thats not it though - the outside diamater of the central section of the malossi sheave is smaller than standard, so the spring seat is loose and the o-rings do not seal! (great job Malossi!) - had to wedge another oring down in there to seal it up.

Anyway the torque driver initially didn't seem to make an awful lot of difference, but after a few days i've noticed smoother acceleration, and an increased top speed too, so well worth it (as long as the seals last!!!).

and that's me for now....not sure there is much else I can do without going to 70cc!

B
Last edited by bazbo on Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ae86guy » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:11 pm

Did u upjet the carb after removing the snorkel from the airbox

you hav added more air and a performance exhaust it needs more fuel or you risk damage to your bore

whats your top speed
niftyfifty
AF18ZX
Polini Corsa 72cc
Malossi full circle crank
Rare Scorpionpipe
Portedcase
CT intake 24mm oko
Disk brake swap
Top speed 115kmh(so far)
still needs lots of tuning
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Postby bazbo » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:27 pm

Ah yes I forgot I did upjet too, should be on the list.

Top speed prior to last 2 mods was 70 kmh by gps, yet to measure with new mods, will let u know....
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Postby ae86guy » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:53 pm

Good to hear u upjetted im just looking out for my fellow scooterists

You know a big bore kit wont make ur top speed go up it will just get u there faster unless u get more rpms from the kit.The final drive gears determen top speed and that goes for rpms as well

getting there faster is much more fun tho
niftyfifty
AF18ZX
Polini Corsa 72cc
Malossi full circle crank
Rare Scorpionpipe
Portedcase
CT intake 24mm oko
Disk brake swap
Top speed 115kmh(so far)
still needs lots of tuning
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Postby bazbo » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:02 pm

Yeah, not going to go big bore as I've spent enough already and feel its more of a challenge to maximise what you can do with 49.5 cc's! I could go for a better performing exhaust, but I really like the sp3 as its so quiet ....
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Postby Dizzer » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:15 pm

Sounds like you've been having a bit of fun, especially with that torque driver :lol: That blue polini spring sounds like a good idea, might have to get me one of them, im not having any perfomance issues with my torque driver tho so im not going to open up that can of worms, my scoot is going like a rocket at the moment.

Hats off to you for sticking with 50cc's, takes alot of control to not get sucked into the 70cc club. $160NZD will get you a decent big bore from taiwan.

I got pulled over by the cops today randomly, i saw him flashing his lights at me. He asked me for my drivers licence, had a long hard look up and down at the scooter particularly the exhaust. Then he asked me where i was heading, said i should take notice how much protection i am wearing. (had my chefs pants and a jersey on). Got back into his car and drove off. Will all these mods my scoot has, im suprised he didn't mention anything, goes to show u can't tell, plus i wasn't speeding so no fault there. :roll:
Yamaha Jog CV50 2006, 70cc Kit, 21mm OKO Carb, large intake C/F Reeds, LV TT exhaust.
Honda Dio AF34E 2000 70cc kit, C/F reeds, Large intake, 19mm OKO carb, Doppler Filter
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Postby Sifu » Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:56 pm

bazbo, have you found what the new top speed is yet with all the mods?

I'm planning to buy a new cdi aswell, have you found that it made a big difference or not?
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Postby bazbo » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:58 am

Sifu wrote:bazbo, have you found what the new top speed is yet with all the mods?

I'm planning to buy a new cdi aswell, have you found that it made a big difference or not?


No I haven't had chance to check it -plus I am only using an app on my iphone to check it and it's not particularly accurate. I reckon I am around 72/73km/h. It's difficult to gauge - checking your speed against other vehicles is unreliable as most cars speedos are inaccurate by 2-5km/h (always displaying higher) so if someone says they were doing 75kmh then it's more likely to be closer to 70kmh.

the iphone gps software seems to be the other way round in that it reads lower than actual speed. Only real way to check is a proper gps unit or calibrated speedo.

Suffice to say my 0-50 is good and thats what matters - I reckon about 5.5seconds to 50 from a standstill.

CDI does not make as big a difference as getting a high speed variator, or performance exhuast. I would save your money and get those done before you do the cdi. Plus you need to be careful with buying the cdi as older jogs (2005&2006) use a different cdi to the later jogs....
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Postby bazbo » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:28 am

So a further update to my jog 50cc mods - just because this is the only real resource for others with Jogs in NZ/Oz.

I noticed recently a bit of a return of 'bogging' whilst going up steep hills. Same issue I've had before which boils down to the contra clutch spring weakening over time. I decided this time not to change it as it's only going to happen again. So instead I've installed lighter rollers which so far seems to have resolved the issue. (currently running 3x4.5g and 3x5.5g which equate to 6x5.0g)

I have the clutch spring ball bearing slider that scootling sells which is supposed to stop the contra spring weakening, but hey it doesn't work! I think the weakening is something that is just going to happen whatever due to the heat generated in the clutch assembly. the ball bearing slider probably slows down the weakening process, but does not stop it.

With a stronger clutch spring you may not have the same issue, but I found the stronger (20%) clutch spring was too strong for my setup and caused a bit of a lag when accelerating. currently I have the blue Polini spring which probably equates to a 10-15% stronger than stock.

Bry
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Postby ae86guy » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:21 am

try the malossi tourqe controller i just bought one havent fitted it yet ill let u know when i do
niftyfifty
AF18ZX
Polini Corsa 72cc
Malossi full circle crank
Rare Scorpionpipe
Portedcase
CT intake 24mm oko
Disk brake swap
Top speed 115kmh(so far)
still needs lots of tuning
ae86guy
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Postby bazbo » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:17 am

ae86guy wrote:try the malossi tourqe controller i just bought one havent fitted it yet ill let u know when i do


already got it and fitted a while back, doesn't make a massive difference, bit smoother acceleration and slightly higher top speed, but not a necessity i'd say - might be more effective for big bore set ups.
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Postby Dizzer » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:07 pm

Bogging again eh, i haven't had that for a while with my jog,
id say most of my bogging problems disappeared when i put the stock variator back in and installed the clutch spring slider.

Although i liked the aftermarket variators for their top speed etc, i ended up just getting frustrated with trying to get them to work for allround driving and hill climbing and put the stock variator back in and ive had no bogging ever since, it seems to keep the revs at a nice responsive level for hills, and on and off driving. I'm running the malossi yellow and clutch spring slider although a little noisy, seems to work fine. I would like to give either the malossi or polini variators a go/

Did this bogging only start recently? If your running low on rollers iv'e got some spare 5g dr pulley sliders, 5g rollers, and 4.7g rollers sitting around not getting used if your rollers are getting worn? They're all a bit too heavy for my setup now.
Yamaha Jog CV50 2006, 70cc Kit, 21mm OKO Carb, large intake C/F Reeds, LV TT exhaust.
Honda Dio AF34E 2000 70cc kit, C/F reeds, Large intake, 19mm OKO carb, Doppler Filter
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Postby bazbo » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:32 am

Bogging started maybe about a month ago - thanks for the offer of more rollers, but they won't fit the polini variator as that takes 16x13 not 15x12 (plus I too have quite a range of 15x12's from previous experiments including dr pulley sliders!) Dio rollers are the same size. I think I have the correct weight now though - hopefully the contra does not deteriorate anymore and I might be able to leave my transmission alone for a while.

I get your point about the variator - I think using a performance one does open up a whole tuning can of worms, whereas sticking with stock makes life a whole lot easier. However for a 50cc setup an aftermarket variator is a must as the difference in acceleration is noticeable. It's probably not so much of an issue with a 70cc setup like yours though as you have so much more power.

I don't have any noise with my clutch spring and ball bearing slider -that sounds a bit odd - have you lost any ball bearings at all?
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Postby keeweechris » Sat May 19, 2012 7:34 pm

I'm getting a bit of bogging when doing hillstarts or starting on the flat too. Just a stock Jog, but just put a new belt on.

Its interesting, cos from standstill it revs quite low, then about 1/2 later "switches" into a state where it revs higher and the power comes on. Takes longer on a hill. Kinda like suddenly changing gear. I had the rear pulley apart today and cleaned out the torque slot thing. The slot has got an angle in it, so maybe its this causing the above effect?

Or maybe my contra spring is too weak, and isn't returning the belt to lowest gear position at idle? Thats the idea, right, that at idle the contra spring closes the rear pulley, which separates the variator?

That torque slot thing seems to be the most mysterious un-written-about thing on the whole cvt.
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Postby bazbo » Sat May 19, 2012 8:23 pm

I have a linear malossi torque driver and still get that change in power that you are talking about. So i'd suggest you don't mess with that as it won't solve the bogging problem. you can either get a stronger contra spring or go for lighter rollers.

I'd suggest the lighter rollers first as it's easier to replace the rollers than taking the clutch apart. I think the stock jog is 6.5g rollers, I'd suggest buying 5.5g and if you find these too light then you can use 3 of the 6.5's and 3 of the 5.5's and you get an effective weight of 6g.

If you get a stronger contra it will also solve the problem, but that spring may too eventually become weaker over time, although this is more noticeable with tuned setups.
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Postby keeweechris » Sat May 19, 2012 8:31 pm

Cool, thanks. I think I've got 3x 5.5g + 3x 6.5g in there, but they've got flat spots (cheap ebay bulk roller kit).

Yeah, so the rollers team up with the contra spring. Gottya. Lighter rollers will mean the contraspring has more effect returning the cvt to lowest gear when idling. Gotya.

Re rollers, I noticed the stock 6.5 or 7g ones are made out of some good hard plastic. Quite shiny, and not much flatspots from 7000-odd-km of riding. Had those cheap ebay ones in for last 3000-odd-km, and they've got some pretty big flats on them. Guess thats not going to help get variator closed properly. I'd better get some good quality ones next. Any idea on brands?

Bit off-topic sorry :roll:
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Postby ladygaga627 » Sat May 19, 2012 8:46 pm

Just want to say you are great...like this topic so much...learning more ine here.
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Postby bazbo » Sat May 19, 2012 10:09 pm

Not off topic at all!

If u have already reduced roller weights it might be time to change the contra spring. But don't go too stiff(ooeerr!!) as this will impact acceleration.

Defo get the flat spot rollers replaced- malossi or polini are good names, could also try dr pulley sliders although I've never found them to be that much better. There are some other good brands out there, maybe others can comment?
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Re: My Jog 50cc update

Postby Dizzer » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:39 pm

keeweechris wrote:I'm getting a bit of bogging when doing hillstarts or starting on the flat too. Just a stock Jog, but just put a new belt on.


You'll always get bogging from a standstill when you have just installed a new belt, because the belt is wider than your previous one it sits higher on the pulley face and therefore you will notice a slight lag on takeoff like your scooter just "suddenly" hits its power band. To help get rid of this you need to place a few extra shims inbetween the pulley sheave and the outside pulley fan.

Scootling sells the shims a little pricy but well worth it
http://shop.scootling.co.nz/index.php?a ... ductId=320

Currently you should have 1 original shim in there already adding 1 or 2 more lets the belt sit lower and will often solve that low end lag. You will lose a little top speed doing this because the belt cannot travel as high on the variator face but once the belt is worn in you can just remove how many shims you need to get your top speed back again.

Don't worry about changing the torque driver too much until you give this a go.
Yamaha Jog CV50 2006, 70cc Kit, 21mm OKO Carb, large intake C/F Reeds, LV TT exhaust.
Honda Dio AF34E 2000 70cc kit, C/F reeds, Large intake, 19mm OKO carb, Doppler Filter
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